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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
4
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Posted - 2016.08.30 18:49:37 -
[1] - Quote
Thank you CCP for finally fixing broken off grid boosts. Especially fixing the even more broken mining boosts where people are able to stay safe inside a POS field. This was always violating Risk/Reward philosophy of Eve Online.... getting +xx% reward at a cost of _zero_ risk. Similar to the off grid combat boosts had not enough risk for the reward... (but at least it wasn't objectively 0.0 risk)
It's always fun to see (mostly industry) people whining when something totally broken in their favor gets balanced. Why can't you be at least honest and say: yes, it was broken in our favor and we're sad that it is gone soon but we're glad we could (ab)use it for several years now. My observation is that PVPers generally admit if something is broken in their favor (T3 cruisers/destroyers - don't know about new cap/fax changes) and wont rage as much if it finally gets balanced but just adapt after a short time. But maybe I'm biased there and they whine the same... Feel free convince me otherwise (with sources).
Also as mentioned above, you'll get another industry boosting ship. So you tell me it's unfair you have to risk a capital in a belt for the boosts? I've a proposal for you: don't f**ing commit a capital for its gain if you cannot defend it.... or be ok with the risk you're taking.
@incursions: so you're participating in another totally broken risk/reward (hisec incursions) mechanic of Eve Online and are still whining about changes slightly affecting-¦ you?
TL;DR:
* risk free mining boosts always violated Risk/Reward philosophy of Eve Online - Hurray for being it fixed
* off grid boosts also had not enough risk for its reward
* please fix broken risk/reward (hi sec) incursions next 
-¦ damn it, can any native speaker please tell me if 'affecting' is correct here? |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 19:50:24 -
[2] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:(...)
* "super weapon" that only postpones destruction
Couldn't your corp mates just use that time to reship into pvp ships and fight for your safety? Or would that be too much work and you just want to have a risk free reward (like possed mining boosts)? |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 19:53:35 -
[3] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Pretagos Omilas wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:[quote=Krystyn](...)
* "super weapon" that only postpones destruction Couldn't your corp mates just use that time to reship into pvp ships and fight for your safety? Not if your corpmates are frozen in mining ships.
Sorry but what do you mean with 'frozen in mining ships'? |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
4
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:04:09 -
[4] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:(...)
The "super weapon" (a.k.a. panic button) affects all mining ships in the fleet with the Rorqual.
Last I heard anyways.
During that time (10 minutes), they are invulnerable and can't move.
Ok, so how about activating the "super weapon" _after_ (most of) your mining ships warped out? And if someone didn't warp out in time he can always eject and warp back in a pod. |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:29:08 -
[5] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Pretagos Omilas wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:(...)
The "super weapon" (a.k.a. panic button) affects all mining ships in the fleet with the Rorqual.
Last I heard anyways.
During that time (10 minutes), they are invulnerable and can't move. Ok, so how about activating the "super weapon" _after_ (most of) your mining ships warped out? And if someone didn't warp out in time he can always eject and warp back in a pod. If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do? Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships? Prevent everyone from warping away.
I see what you mean, but if you're not able to warp off in time having local (I assume we're talking about k-space-¦), than you're already doing something wrong in my eyes. Or are we talking about being (semi-)afk? Because anyone being afk deserves to loose the ship.
-¦ If we're talking about w-space, than it's not much different.... collapse all non-static holes, crit (or not jump your new) static, bubble it and have eyes there (both times, k- and w-space: watch dscan/sigs and stay aligned). |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:53:40 -
[6] - Quote
Drago Misharie wrote:Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?
Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?
Prevent everyone from warping away.
If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to... 2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled
So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends... |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 20:59:20 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:no the ships can keep mining but they can't fight if they are shielded
Thanks for the information, didn't know that and I'd have loved to see some nice baits :-) Still I guess the way to go than is to warp off mining ships and activate that weapon afterwards to buy you some time until your reinforcement arrives. |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 21:12:16 -
[8] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Pretagos Omilas wrote:Drago Misharie wrote:Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?
Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?
Prevent everyone from warping away.
If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to... 2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends... You do realize the Rorqual cannot move, right?
Yes, I was assuming the Rorqual to not be able to move/align (but seriously thanks for pointing it out because my knowledge about Rorquals and mining ships is not complete and I might be lacking some other info/mechanics). In my above post I was talking about having the mining ships ready to warp out to switch to fighting ships. While the mining ships are off grid, the Rorqual can activate the weapon to buy the time needed for the reinforcment to come back.
But again, I'm just thinking aloud so please correct me if I'm assuming some game mechanics wrongly. |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 23:22:10 -
[9] - Quote
Gulmuk wrote:(...)
I HAVE NEVER IN 7 YEARS OF EVE HEARD ANYONE SAY MINERS SHOULD HAVE TO BOOST FROM ON GRID. NEVER...
(...)
Really? I'd be surprised if no one already pointed out that risk less mining boosts (sitting inside pos field) are bad and against Risk/Reward principle of eve online... oh wait.... there is google and you can quickly find: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6260285#post6260285 for example. |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 18:52:58 -
[10] - Quote
This sounds like a good idea to structure feedback:
GsyBoy wrote:Can we have two threads, one for mining and one for pvp implications, some only interested in one or another I feel, would make thread more readable also.
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Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.02 14:09:55 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Balder Verdandi wrote:Defentora Thentax wrote:(...) I have to agree .... on grid combat links are quite different than off grid mining boosts, but CCP apparently doesn't see it that way. Now if CCP actually sat down with miners to find out how they do mining ops ..... Oh wait, nevermind. They don't do that. I don't see the issue with needing to put an asset on grid in order to reap the benefits. When you can just keep an orca safely tucked on the undock what is the downside to using it? Why would anyone with access to an orca not use one?
This discussion is running in circles... plenty of people already pointed out the current broken "get benefits for zero risk" mechanic of possed boosts; I have yet to see a response addressing that argument from a miner other than "this is how miners do things for I.don't.know.how.long and we are (for some reason) entitled to it!"
Anyone feel free to link me a post I might have missed reading in this thread addressing it.
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Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 09:26:49 -
[12] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:lol miners are not getting ganked 100% of the time don't try to sway the numbers
what is the survival rate of miners going out to mine vs a combat pilot going out to fight and miners are going to make back much more than they lose where as a combat pilot is going to need to recoup their losses some other way Don't play word games when you lose the argument. We are not discussing the odds of being ganked. We are talking about the survival rate of those ganked versus as you said a widow jumping into a fight. Not the odds of a widow finding a fight. Man up you lost the argument on merit. Your position was emotional and not fact based, not surprising you are trying to spin it into an area where there is no way to measure. Have some integrity please.
Actually following your discussion, my understanding is that both of you are talking about the risk of flying a combat ship vs. risk of flying an industrial ship doing respectively activities. And both of you argued with a conditional probability. Warping into a fight vs. being ganked whereas you should compare 1h gameplay of both. So for example Roaming vs mining (vs ratting vs hauling vs hacking, ...). So the odds of being ganked is very important to the risk you're taking with your activity. With your (Dread Red) argument it wouldn't make a different if you are mininig in hs, low, null or wh space. As I said: conditional probability (look it up).
But even, just to throw you a bone, let's compare a combat ship warping into a fight (FW complex for example) and an industrial ship that is about to be ganked (gankers enter system and are immediately warping to you) the industrial ship has very high odds to survive because he can just warp off. Especially in k-space with (overpowered) local but also in wh space you can get pretty safe in industrial ships.
So we're back at the real "problem".... you have to take some steps of preparation and be vigilant to survive what most industrials are not ready to do - at least that's the public image one gets reading miners talk/whine on the forums. Of course I do know not every miner/industrial is like that because plenty of miners are able to escape a gank in time. And there is no difference if it's hs/low/null.
edit: just to make sure, there obviously is a difference between hs/low/null... what I meant is: no matter what the system is, you can avoid getting killed - it just takes different amounts of work on your side. |
Pretagos Omilas
Arch Arsonists of EvE
Another Really Stupid Enterprise
8
|
Posted - 2016.09.04 12:26:08 -
[13] - Quote
Dread Red wrote:But the bottom line is an extremely high percentage of pliots who get ganked get their vessel destroyed aka they don't survive. There we are again with the conditional probability. A high percentage of people flying a combat ship without bothering to do anything to stay alive will die. There, that is basically the same sentence as yours. Can you see the flaw?
Dread Red wrote:Spin and play word games if it makes you feel better about your position but everyone playing EVE for longer than a month actually knows the truth, combat ships survive combat better than mining ships. I'd ague it is you who is spinning and playing word games but since we probably cannot agree here why don't we just stop here repeating ourselves and let every reader decide what his/her conclusion is...
note: removed parts of quotes for readability purposes. |
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